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  • Grown men with braids

     

    so that means you could also be proclaiming some notion...

    Am I to presume that your probative assertions aren't rhetorical, even as I'm aware of your snarky inclination to offer biting commentary while failing to engage in the discussion prior and hauling tail and/or acknowledging a jovial outlook on the matters should someone engage you? I know you're not inclined to take anything of the sort seriously. Inherently, it isn't normal for you to think anything could be as deep. However, if you're not just here doing your tongue-in-cheek witty routine, let me know.

    I can attempt to pique your educated and indifferent recollection.
    http://www.derailingfordummies.com/

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    so that means you could also be proclaiming some notion...

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    i love how these discussions usually boil down to i...

    THANK YOU!!!!! Just because we disagree on a topic does not mean I have whitey puppet strings attached to my mind. I have my own set of issues going on completely seperate from that mess......sigh

    I have come to the conclusion that:

    Personally, I prefer a man without cornrows or box braids. My preference has nothing to do with what "Master" told me to like/dislike. If ever I was in a relationship and my SO decided to grow his hair out and wear cornrows/box braids if I truely loved his person I could overlook them. Its not that deep its only hair, he could be bald in 5 years, then no hair.

    Professionaly, If I owned a business I could care less of how you wore your hair as long as you can get the job done without it interfering in your performance. It's so many other things to be worried about when hiring an employee hair would be the last thing on my list. Nevertheless, many many a men and women have conformed to society's standard of professional dress. As natural styles become more common place, I can only hope that the negative stigmas attached to natural hair can dissipate.

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    We could start up threads and extract visual examples with glorious back stories. We've done that for women with short hair, women with nappy hair, etc. We could eventually have constructive black entertainment and educational media outlets. We could spend decades compiling information for nappy headed women who are intolerant and drawing the line (once they get good and safe themselves). However, at some point, it gets tiresome and folks should just be honest about being willfully ignorant. I would bet my life that there are people who read what I wrote and thought that would be a great idea. SMH. Brainwashed and privileged. If you need your brain reconditioned, you acknowledge your ignorance and being brainwashed. You can have other priorities or be disinterested, but ignorant preconceived notions are...conditioned. However, if you can't explain it, I know how that happens to people. It's called natural versus nurturing. And, nappy hair growing without being attacked with clippers is natural. Seeing braided black males running on Cops or in ghettos....nurturing/environmental.

    If the media flooded depictions of quality fathers and hardworking males of color who wore braids, rather than showing them in Tyler Perry movies and on Cops alone, perceptions would be different and brains reconditioned. This is a white world, white media, and people are incessantly fed white values. It's one thing to presume that we can't change it. It's another thing to presume that we should surrender to it for monies. It's an entirely other thing to accept those stereotypes and disassociate from/dislike natural attributes which haven't been recognized and standardized by the dominant culture of our societies.

    It's not a conspiracy theory to presume that people educated in white-powered public schools and fed white-powered stories (who lack any rationale and/or reasoning otherwise for their disassociation from/dislike of normally occurring and appreciable attributes) might be conditioned against things which needn't depict what has been streamed to them. I don't need to be fed a diet of women with short nappy hair who aren't bitter and are heterosexual to appreciate nappy textures. I don't need to be fed a diet of women with "white approved long" nappy hair to regard nappy textures as attractive or *gasps* feminine. Because...I'm not brainwashed in that regard. I get it. I have other ignorance of my own to banish, but I'm doing okay here. I don't know it all. You don't know it all. We will always have some ignorance to banish. That's the way it works. It's not an accusation; it's an acknowledgment. It doesn't have to get ugly. Walk away, if you're above it all.

    Wearing braids is not out of control. It's not unsightly or indicative of criminal behavior. If people shrug and disassociate from/dislike that superficial possibility, it's a matter of conditioning. Plain and simple. If the media portrayed something else, the sheep would respond to it without screaming, "Wolves and black sheep!". I don't mean to offend anyone by being honest. This is rather simple. There doesn't need to be a male naturality or nappy male agenda for people to "get it". If you don't want to engage in this discussion, but you want to be offended that we're trying to properly treat, re-educate, and re-evaluate concepts with other Blacked people, please don't post (or spin off without leeching) rather than ridicule and/or derail. You're not that slick.

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    However, if you can't explain it, I know how...

    This is true.. but not always.. and therein lies the problem.. Where is your control group of people who have not been brainwashed but still do not like long hair on dudes?

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    It's called natural versus nurturing. And, nappy hair growing without being attacked with clippers is natural. Seeing braided black males running on Cops or in ghettos....nurturing/environmental.
    hair growing without being groomed (see the subjective here? ) with clippers is natural.. (please see pre-colonial societies that use knives to keep male hair short are they brainwashed too?)

    And is brainwashing good if it comes predominately out of an all black community? What of women who have more exposure to pimps with long hair in their neighborhood than television cop shows who decide that dudes with long hair are ugly..

    I think it a good indicator that a woman who has gone through the pain of embracing hair that her society deems as ugly including her menfolk.. has a good start with healthy appreciation for natural hair..

    Now I think it is very possible and probable that our TASTES for hair STYLE is influenced by the larger society.. but I think that trying to decipher such a thing is a waste of time..

    Because people tend towards certain constants.. order, symmetry combined with health make folx go "ooooh pretty".. There are enough issues in our community than to get upset because a natural sis doesn't like two pigtails on grown men..

    geez..

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    People are incessantly conditioned, disciplined, and treated toward behaviors and interests which suit a culture/society/group. When in a multicultural environment, if the dominant culture conditions, disciplines, and treats a subculture in a way that compromises their liberties and humanity, those people can be controlled without being abused physically and/or directly threatened. That sort of mental conditioning is what I'm regarding as being brainwashed. The whole concept of dignity and integrity for Black people in white-powered societies is phantasmal and hostile. Yet, to whom?

    I'm an individual. In that, I critique all preprogramming and future efforts for and by myself. If there are other individuals who would like to disengage from behaviors that are muting their natural attributes, abilities, and their personal betterment, I hope to be of help to them. If there are people who are all-set and don't care beyond themselves or already have picked the issues they'll deal with, that's cool too. However, exasperated appeals that this is going too far won't work. This isn't a post-racial world. I can head nod to see if a brother or sister is okay or we can set down and have a real discussion. This is a real discussion. I'm not hurt or trying to hurt. I'm probing the issue, offering of myself, and asking people to level with us alike. If you don't want to get our conspiracy cooties on you, step back.

    The discussion can go on without the appeals that this is not real or too much. Just step back and let it be. This component of naturality has been addressed by and for natural males without appeals that this isn't real or that they should cut their hair or care that there are women who will blurt out that they don't like <dfkjalsdfja> on said males. I can't express enough how irrelevant that is to what we're discussing. No one cares if you won't sleep with a male who wears two pig tails. We're acknowledging that a male with braids or wearing pigtails could be accredited, trained, of character, a solid parent, and contributing citizen to any such society. Go sleep with and consider fashionable whomever you will. It's not unsanitary or a character flaw to wear two pig tails or braids.

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    hair growing without being groomed (see the subjective here?...

    Yes. I was just about to post something like this. which goes a little something like this: So throughout African history, NO MALE ever had a zero?

    People like what they like. It isn't always that deep. The "white man" isn't lurking behind every thought.

    So box braids, nope. Cornrows, maaaybe. But they have to be tight and no longer than the nape. Side ponytail. Hell no.

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    Wow, this thread is still going on. Might as well post.....
    I say nay to men in braids, earrings and even dreadlocks, personally and professionally.

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    Yes. I was just about to post something like this....

    To that I would ask: So, when it applies to males we throw out the "if you don't like it, don't do it to yourself" mantra?

    I'm not saying that males who choose to groom how ever MUST be tripping. I'm noting that I believe natural women who are prejudging black males who style their hair in methods which are otherwise supported herein may be tripping. We can discuss gender roles again, but should the unaccepted people not eat or work while we sort that out? You're going to fire or pressure black males who choose to wear their hair in box braids that aren't harmfully "tight", even if they've established their work ethic and "professionalism" otherwise? If so, who or what would that be promoting? It's been surreal and I am going to step back too. If someone else can see a productive angle or perspective to put forth, have at it. I'm listening and eager to continue learning. =)

    Any further direct questions to me or cosigning of outstanding arguments I spoke against can be directed to PM or Visitor Messaging, if you'd like to engage me. My public discourse on this matter is suspended.

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    I don't mind a grown man wearing braids even though I personally don't like braids on males older then 5 years old. It's his business. If he can get a job/career/SO with them, more power to him.

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    To that I would ask: So, when it applies to...

    Tight=neat.

    Not going to fire anyone. Don't think a hairstyle should be a deciding factor in getting a job. Again, I am talking about things that I have a knee jerk attraction to.

    I tend to like shorter hair on men.

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    so that means you could also be proclaiming some notion...

    Thank you for saying the bold. It's almost as if we just can't disagree. If I go by what's in here I'm ignorant, brainwashed, narrow minded, and not enlightened because I don't like grown men in braids because they look juvenile...riiiiiight

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    .... But then we come in here and bash "grown...

    I don't think anyone is bashing men nor telling them to conform. Everyone is just stating their opinion. The opinions that don't conform to the idea that cornrows and braids are professional (or even look good) on men do not equal bashing, one-sidedness, double standard, close-mindedness, brainwashing or all the other labels that have been attached to those with this differing point of view.

    Quote:...not even appropriate for work, and just WHO set down...

    For me, the media has nothing to do with it. The majority of the black men I know who regularly wear cornrows (or have done so in the past) are professional, trained, degreed, hardworking men and quality fathers, including my very own SO and flesh and blood brother. Guess what? I still don't like them on men.

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    I can't think of how I would have been brainwashed...

    I guess it all depends on what your definition of "brainwashing" is. I don't think i'll use that term.

    Brainwashing seems to be a bit extreme.

    Like i said, few people actually develop thoughts, ideals, morals, etc. on their own. Generally we're influenced by something or someone else.

    Whether or not you want to call this influence brainwashing all depends on the severity.

    I dont think you're brainwashed because you prefer men with short hair. Truth be told, i don't even know the whole brainwashing thing was even directed towards you.

    Your preferences don't necesarily mean anything. It's the reason behind them. So thus there could be a case where "brainwashing" is a factor in a persons personal preferences, and then it case where it has nothing to do with this.

    I'll end this for now. But i'll come back tomorow and make a concise statement, after i've gathered my thoughts.

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    I think I'll say this.

    Before i get caught up.

    First off, Brainwashing is real, and many people are Brainwashed.
    Personal preferences can be linked to a certain type of brainwashing.
    Alot of an individuals personal preference comes from them being a product of their environment.
    In the Western world particularly the general populace is a by-product of euro centricity. Thus the environment is heavily euro centric.

    That being said, every single preference of everyone single person is not a result of brainwashing. Even those who may be brainwashed may not even be brainwashed by euro-centricity.

    The possibility of you being brainwashed by some source is real, it's real for everyone. Me personally i can't readily trace personal preference of short hair to eurocentric brainwashing. but it can be traced to brainwashing.

    Just to set my own lines. I'll try to be concise as possible.

    Outside of actually formulating an idea from out of thin air, their are two ways to acquire an ideal, ideals, morals, etc.

    The first way is influence.
    You have been influenced if the place of origin for your idea is still apart of your conscious, thus you can trace it. Meaning like my personal preference for attractiveness in a black woman, with natural "black" hair. I didn't spawn this idea, this is a result of the influence of my afro-centric/africanist school.

    Now brainwashing. If you have an idea moral, value, etc. and the place of origin is not apart of you conscious but your subconscious then this opens up a possibility for brainwashing. Meaning if i had the idea that Straight hair was "good" hair and its prettier and than "bad" nappy hair, than it could possibly be a result of brainwashing. Depends on my reasoning, if its because i think "nappy" hair is ugly, it's more than likely because of brainwashing. I use to feel like this, but i had no direct reason as to why.

    Im going to briefly brake off. If you have a personal preference that you cannot trace, but have a logical reason as to why, then you have possibly just formulated this idea. Lets say i said i didn't like someone wearing there hair a certain way because of how it affected me physically. So possibly i may have just formed this idea because of a negative reaction i had physically to to it. It may irritate my skin when i come in contact with it, or whatever.

    Thus if you cannot trace and ideal, and that ideal is based of a mental preference, then brainwashing is much more likely to be a reason behind that preference. In contrast if you cannot trace an ideal but that ideal is based of a physical reaction, then you could have quite possibly formulated that ideal.

    Clarity:

    If your statement sounds like:

    "i dont like that"
    "why?"
    "i just dont"
    "why?"
    "because i think it looks ugly"

    Then you could have been brainwashed into thinking a certain way.

    if your statement sounds like
    "why?"
    Because it irritates my skin then you could possibly formed the idea.

    Tommorow i'll try to expand a bit. But consider that the source of your preference could be something you were exposed to as a child, such as mostly men with short hair. Thus you could have been "brainwashed" as a child to thinking a certain way.

    Not even by eurocentricity. But still brainwashed by a certain type of environment none the less.

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    I think the word brainwashed is harsh. What you seem to be describing is "socialization."

    So rather than saying "y'all were brainwashed to believe short hair is better on men" it would be better (by which i mean engender less ire) to say "y'all were socialized to believe short hair is better on men"

    *back to your regularly scheduled thread*

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    Thanks, Nickib.

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    I think the word brainwashed is harsh. What you seem...

    I suppose it's harsh.

    But its a good way to sum up a full definition in a single word and give you a picture.

    Essentially Brainwashing= embedding something into one's subconcious. If something is embedded into your sub-concious you have no control over it. Its just an ideal,thought, moral you have without any physical reason. Thus you will live by it without even noticing it.

    At least that's how i see it.

    I think the term can fall in between of the two terms i used.

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    Silly Question- Okay I have to ask. Didn't braids use to popular with men just like locs are now? I could have sworn when I was in high school (97-01) everyone was wearing braids just like everyone (men) are wearing locs now. Anyone else remember this? Maybe it was just the young guys, but i thought it was the older gentleman as well.

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    ^^^Not in my world. Even when Rick James was rockin' them when I was a kid, I thought he looked silly.

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    I was in high school from 96-00 and I don't remember braids being such a major style. Most boys had short hair cuts (a lot of brushing and talking about waves) and no one had locs. I thought braids were cute THEN, 10+ years ago, but I remember being in college thinking that some dudes look like kids. I could care less about popularity, lol. Men wearing skinny jeans is popular and I think it looks silly.

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    ^^^Not in my world. Even when Rick James was rockin'...

    this righ here

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    ^ thank you both for answering my question, I guess it was just popular where I lived.

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    i think it depends on the man. normally i would say i dislike braids on men, BUT my little (27 yr old) brother sports these crazy looking cornrows and they actually look very good on him. his hair is neat and clean AND he has a job where he can afford TWO cars in San Francisco. a legal job...
    thing is, i don't see a lot of men who actually take care of their hair well enough to justify the braids...

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    ^^^Not in my world. Even when Rick James was rockin'...

    I just thought it was part of his rock/funk image. I was too young (born in 1973) to have a stronger opinion than that.

    We're bustin out and we're free from the square
    We done braided our hair, we don't mind if you stare

    Oh, that will look good in a siggy!

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    ^^^Ahhh, we're in the same age range. I was a deep thinking, precocious child. LOL!

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    Wow. I go away for the weekend and come back to this!

    Am I the only one who had no idea the 10 page limit was demolished? Yes? Ok then.

    Anyway like someone else said this whole argument makes me see things a whole lot differently than before...

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    ^^^ It may not have been demolished, just unreported. Then again, my favorite threads generally go on forever. Hmmm, maybe I just never noticed the non-demolition (probably not a word).

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